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Feb 12, 2006 18:30:15 GMT -5
Post by cheride on Feb 12, 2006 18:30:15 GMT -5
Well, yeah, but employing the Rule of the Tag, subsection 1a, not only does it not have to be consistent with any other piece of canon before or since, it also doesn't have to make a whit of sense. And I think this should be our new motto when discussing the canon: "It doesn't have to make a whit of sense." Maybe on an escutcheon, in Latin even. Well, I don't know about the Latin, but I ran it through Babel Fish, and I sorta liked the French: il ne doit pas faire un petit morceau du sensNow, I could see that emblazoned in pagentry and hanging over a fireplace, even on an interior wall.
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Feb 12, 2006 19:53:25 GMT -5
Post by owlcroft on Feb 12, 2006 19:53:25 GMT -5
Yeah, but doesn't the Queen of England already use that?
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Feb 12, 2006 22:48:04 GMT -5
Post by kslmoran on Feb 12, 2006 22:48:04 GMT -5
Who else remembers those deathless lyrics and how many could sing the whole song? I mean, really, an "early-morning singin'-song"? ) Not only can I sing all the lyrics, I actually still have the 45 of that song. AND I taught it to my kindergarten kids to sing at last year's Family Night Celebration. And the parent's all loved it!! So there!
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Feb 13, 2006 16:26:27 GMT -5
Post by lmlewis on Feb 13, 2006 16:26:27 GMT -5
Yeah, but doesn't the Queen of England already use that? Yeah, but she doesn't have a show that's in the top five for DVD sales on Amazon.ca; let her get a new motto ;-)
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Feb 13, 2006 17:01:50 GMT -5
Post by lmlewis on Feb 13, 2006 17:01:50 GMT -5
Okay, from "Ties", H and Sonny are in the hotel room. Mark hasn't shown up yet. The phone rings.
Hardcastle to Sonny (all smiles and reassurance): This is probably him now. Ya know how kids are; they meet a pretty girl and they don't cal home for a month. Then, without missing a beat, into the phone-- Where the hell are you McCormick?
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Feb 13, 2006 17:08:30 GMT -5
Post by lmlewis on Feb 13, 2006 17:08:30 GMT -5
And then, same scene, a minute later:
Hardcastle: I've gone about sixty years without breaking the law, but i could stretch this and call it 'flagrent necessity': a case of urgency rendering lawful an otherwise illegal act . . . that means I get to break the law if i have a good enough reason. I think Mark's life is good enough reason.
Sonny: But what do you know about cracking safes?
Hardcastle: Not as much as I know about cracking heads.
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Feb 13, 2006 17:12:50 GMT -5
Post by lmlewis on Feb 13, 2006 17:12:50 GMT -5
Interestingly, of the handful of scripts I've read, this one seems to vary the most from the finished product. Don't know if it's just because I notice it more, knowing the episode bettter than most of the others, or there was a lot of ad-libbing going on.
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Feb 13, 2006 17:56:31 GMT -5
Post by cheride on Feb 13, 2006 17:56:31 GMT -5
And then, same scene, a minute later: Hardcastle: I've gone about sixty years without breaking the law, but i could stretch this and call it 'flagrent necessity': a case of urgency rendering lawful an otherwise illegal act . . . that means I get to break the law if i have a good enough reason. I think Mark's life is good enough reason. Yeah, but this is HC's own revisionist history going on. He's completely discounting the fact that he broke into a police impound facility just a year ago, and broke out of a prison not too long after that. Okay, the warrant was signed and time dated, so technically no crime there, and maybe it wasn't exactly a lawful incarceration, so maybe that gets you some slack, but still . . . I'm pretty sure they were crimes by intent. But even so, I do so love the logic of it all, and of course Mark's life is a good enough reason.
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Feb 13, 2006 19:45:04 GMT -5
Post by owlcroft on Feb 13, 2006 19:45:04 GMT -5
Interestingly, of the handful of scripts I've read, this one seems to vary the most from the finished product. Don't know if it's just because I notice it more, knowing the episode bettter than most of the others, or there was a lot of ad-libbing going on. Does anyone know how much latitude they were given? Did it depend on the director at the time? How much of what we see was off-the-cuff? (Culp and Cosby got to the point where most of the not-really-all-that-important-to-the-plot stuff was theirs. A phrase prevalent in their free-stylin' was "by the same token". It was something to say while thinking of something to say.)
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Feb 14, 2006 23:15:50 GMT -5
Post by lmlewis on Feb 14, 2006 23:15:50 GMT -5
Interestingly, of the handful of scripts I've read, this one seems to vary the most from the finished product. Don't know if it's just because I notice it more, knowing the episode bettter than most of the others, or there was a lot of ad-libbing going on. Does anyone know how much latitude they were given? Did it depend on the director at the time? How much of what we see was off-the-cuff? (Culp and Cosby got to the point where most of the not-really-all-that-important-to-the-plot stuff was theirs. A phrase prevalent in their free-stylin' was "by the same token". It was something to say while thinking of something to say.) Don't know about that, but some of the changes in the final version of 'Ties' were subtle improvements. There's a bit in the script where McC says his dad walked out when he was three. That would have been yet another point to make the canon watchers crazy. I should do a line comparison of the dressing room scene. It just doesn't read like it plays and I'm sure there are a couple of other really salient changes. On a slightly different note, the script of "Do Not Go Gentle" has the title line being spoken by H (at the end of the restuarant scene) and McC firing back the last line of the poem (Rage, rage against the dying of the light), which makes the whole thing about kicking and clawing--not to mention naming the boat "The Fury' make a lot more sense. I keep meaning to go back and watch that scene, I think they cut one or both of those lines. I'm pretty sure I'd remember McC spouting Dylan Thomas ;-)
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Feb 14, 2006 23:23:49 GMT -5
Post by lmlewis on Feb 14, 2006 23:23:49 GMT -5
Oh, and it's not a quote, or a change in dialogue, but the stage directions in "Do Not Go Gentle" (page 20) when McC confronts H and he tells him that he has six months to live:
--McCormick moves to Hardcastle and puts his arms around him--
Oh, the elusive hug! ;-) This gets translated, if I remember right, to a guyish but heartfelt hand on the shoulder. And, you know, I think the director, or actors, were right about that, too, for a couple of reasons that I would be glad to detail if there are any of you left who still haven't nodded off at this point.
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Feb 15, 2006 2:39:02 GMT -5
Post by owlcroft on Feb 15, 2006 2:39:02 GMT -5
Absolutely right. Hardcastle wouldn't have known how to deal with a hug and probably didn't want one. He needed a shoulder to take his weight for a minute and he got that. And I can't see McCormick quoting _anybody_ at that moment. He's too full of emotion to speak any other than his own words. Besides, he's not a guy that quotes much -- other than limericks. Script writer, script editors -- phooey. You know, we could've done better; in fact, sometimes, we do! Speaking in the aggregate, of course.
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Feb 15, 2006 7:22:27 GMT -5
Post by cheride on Feb 15, 2006 7:22:27 GMT -5
LML said:
And Owl replied:
And I think you both got it absolutely right. HC might've been willing to go out marvelling at the beauty of plastic roses, but no way he wants to go out with the kid "slobbering" all over him. At this moment, he's less in control than he's ever been, and he doesn't need a tangible reminder of that fact in the form of McC getting all touchy-feely on him.
And as for McC, he might be demonstrative enough that a hug would've made him feel better right then, but he sure as heck would know it wouldn't do much for the judge. And how to make things easier on HC would've been his immediate thought in those circumstances. At least, that's my take on the whole thing.
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Feb 15, 2006 11:43:42 GMT -5
Post by lmlewis on Feb 15, 2006 11:43:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree that in term of the dramatic moment, where control is an issue, it would be more in character for Hardcastle to be stoic, and McC to respect that. This is one of those instances where a very small gesture (a hand on a shoulder) speaks volumes.
This is a very quiet scene, with much more implied than said. H is parroting the lines that were spoken earlier by the phone salesman, along with all that gobbledygook about 'holographic sound', like he's trying to put some space between himself and the situation. McC's dialogue consists almost entirely of short, insistent questions, breaking down H's defenses--first to the euphimism, then to a straight-up admission about what is going to happen. If you were to put in a hug at that moment, it would be a huge segue, an absolute contradiction of everything that went before, and, on a more practical level, it would take a scene which was basically shot very static, with one camera, and both guys more facing it, than each other, and suddenly put the characters in a position where you have to have two cameras, and cuts, to see both of them.
. . . and did I ever tell you the story about how I came home from a trip one time and found that my husband had taped The Gilmore Girls over my copy of this episode, starting right at this scene?
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Feb 15, 2006 14:26:32 GMT -5
Post by owlcroft on Feb 15, 2006 14:26:32 GMT -5
You've both gotten to the point here of the whole relationship at this moment. McCormick _is_ a more touchy-feely person; he tries to hug the judge in the Coyote later in this very episode because he's jolted out of his normal just-be-there-to-let-him-lean-on-you responsibility. He's very aware of Hardcastle's limitations in the tangible affection area and can accept them. After all, he's built up his own defenses pretty effectively. But even if the judge were ever despondent or tired enough to _want_ a hug, I don't think he could take it from McCormick because that's not the way he's structured their relationship. I firmly believe if Mark had tried to hug him after winning the Arizona Modified, he might've allowed it for a few seconds (kind of like Homecoming), but that's it. A little gratification for the kid because he deserves it, then --push--. "Quit slobbering all over me!"
Now for the more important topic ------- "The Gilmore Girls"! And you two are still together?
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