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Post by blk95ta on Nov 3, 2007 14:12:31 GMT -5
I'm probably reaching here but could it be that H&M was making reference to knight rider in the episode "Duet for 2 wind instruments" ?
First of all, the bad guys car is a black trans am with a convertible top (a custom job as a real T/A 'vert didnt appear until 1989) and its got that same tanneau cover that KITT had after his rebuild in the fall of 85 along with super pursuit mode....
another reason im thinking thisis because as far as i know, that is the only time the coyote ever got "beat" in any sort of race/chase.... he ended up run off the road down in the ditch.......
and i know im really reaching here at this point, but mccormick in that black leather jacket and sunglasses was sooooo hasslehoffish LOL....
I know for a fact that back in the 80s the competing studios poked fun at eachother subtly in their shows... case and point the first season knight rider episode "Give me liberty or give me death" there is an orange 69 Dodge charger driven by 2 rednecks that is supposed to run on moonshine... I know i dont need to tell you what tv show they were poking fun at.....
and a few years later that show put a mechanism on General Lee that made it drive itself....maybe not as obvious as the dukes reference in knight rider, but i bet thats what they were going for...
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Post by Coyote Queen on Nov 4, 2007 7:17:07 GMT -5
"Duet for 2 wind instruments" .... I haven't watched that episode in a while. Was that the episode where McCormick was drunk and crawling on the kitchen floor while the judge taunted him with a Wendy's hamburger? LOL ;D www.youtube.com/v/82-FJyniP7A&rel=1I wouldn't be a bit surprised if someone told me they saw similar episodes/scripts of Riptide, Hunter, Hardcastle, Stingray, etc. Cannel is notorious for recycling scripts, special effects, and even guest stars. On the other hand, he also had a habit of finding the perfect actors to fill his roles: Brian Keith, Daniel Hugh Kelly, Robert Culp, William Katt, James Garner, Ken Wahl, Micheal Chiklis, Fred Dryer, Stepfanie Kramer, and the list goes on. The following is not to be read by people who get easily offended: This post is not directed at anyone. It's my own ramblings about a topic that has irked me for roughly 25 years: Sorry gang, but I despise Knight Rider (and the Dukes of Hazzard). I read a lame post on some other board that " Hardcastle and McCormick was ABC's response to Knight Rider". What a bunch of crap! The two shows are entirely different. It pisses me off. If anything, Knight Rider was NBC's response to CBS's The Dukes of Hazzard. Hell, you could even say Knight Rider is a ripoff of My Mother The Car! In the case of both the Dukes and Knight Rider the star of the show was the CAR. CBS even replaced the "human stars" because they wanted more $$$ from the sales of "Dukes" merchandise. For those of you too young to remember, it was General Lee toys that were flying off the shelves, not John Schneider T-shirts. The Dukes of Hazzard eventually got canceled due to poor scripts and poor production values. Yes, the actors who replaced the originals sucked, but that was a casting error. Bottom line...when people hear the words " Dukes of Hazzard" the first thing they think of is an orange 1969 Dodge Charger. In Hardcastle and McCormick you had real acting with chemistry and character development. You can see as the series progressed, how Mark and Milt went from an adversarial relationship to that of father/son. The Coyote is not as prominent in episodes as some naysayers and detractors might lead you to believe. I can't say the same about the " Dukes of Hazzard" or " Knight Rider". ***Turn away now if you despise the sight of blood*** I'm going to go even further by saying that Brian Keith and Daniel Hugh Kelly are/were real actors who excel(led) at their craft. Hasselhoff and Schneider can't act their way out of a paper bag. And don't even get me started on the "token senior citizens holding down the fort"...Denver Pyle and Ed Mulhare. Yeah, sit back and let the young guys steal the thunder! You don't see the Judge doing that now do ya? Hardcastle and McCormick was an ORIGINAL. It wasn't a "response" to anything, nor was it a "car as the star" show. Quite simply it was yet another wonderful creation from the genius named Cannell. |
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Post by owlcroft on Nov 4, 2007 13:17:57 GMT -5
Oooh, yes, I completely agree with the "spoiler" contents. Well said!
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Post by blk95ta on Nov 4, 2007 15:16:47 GMT -5
"Duet for 2 wind instruments" .... I haven't watched that episode in a while. Was that the episode where McCormick was drunk and crawling on the kitchen floor while the judge taunted him with a Wendy's hamburger? LOL ;D www.youtube.com/v/82-FJyniP7A&rel=1I wouldn't be a bit surprised if someone told me they saw similar episodes/scripts of Riptide, Hunter, Hardcastle, Stingray, etc. Cannel is notorious for recycling scripts, special effects, and even guest stars. On the other hand, he also had a habit of finding the perfect actors to fill his roles: Brian Keith, Daniel Hugh Kelly, Robert Culp, William Katt, James Garner, Ken Wahl, Micheal Chiklis, Fred Dryer, Stepfanie Kramer, and the list goes on. The following is not to be read by people who get easily offended: This post is not directed at anyone. It's my own ramblings about a topic that has irked me for roughly 25 years: Sorry gang, but I despise Knight Rider (and the Dukes of Hazzard). I read a lame post on some other board that " Hardcastle and McCormick was ABC's response to Knight Rider". What a bunch of crap! The two shows are entirely different. It pisses me off. If anything, Knight Rider was NBC's response to CBS's The Dukes of Hazzard. Hell, you could even say Knight Rider is a ripoff of My Mother The Car! In the case of both the Dukes and Knight Rider the star of the show was the CAR. CBS even replaced the "human stars" because they wanted more $$$ from the sales of "Dukes" merchandise. For those of you too young to remember, it was General Lee toys that were flying off the shelves, not John Schneider T-shirts. The Dukes of Hazzard eventually got canceled due to poor scripts and poor production values. Yes, the actors who replaced the originals sucked, but that was a casting error. Bottom line...when people hear the words " Dukes of Hazzard" the first thing they think of is an orange 1969 Dodge Charger. In Hardcastle and McCormick you had real acting with chemistry and character development. You can see as the series progressed, how Mark and Milt went from an adversarial relationship to that of father/son. The Coyote is not as prominent in episodes as some naysayers and detractors might lead you to believe. I can't say the same about the " Dukes of Hazzard" or " Knight Rider". ***Turn away now if you despise the sight of blood*** I'm going to go even further by saying that Brian Keith and Daniel Hugh Kelly are/were real actors who excel(led) at their craft. Hasselhoff and Schneider can't act their way out of a paper bag. And don't even get me started on the "token senior citizens holding down the fort"...Denver Pyle and Ed Mulhare. Yeah, sit back and let the young guys steal the thunder! You don't see the Judge doing that now do ya? Hardcastle and McCormick was an ORIGINAL. It wasn't a "response" to anything, nor was it a "car as the star" show. Quite simply it was yet another wonderful creation from the genius named Cannell. as far as copying the storyline... i dont think thats the case at all.. i was saying that there are subtle references to knight rider in this episode in my opinon, just like there are less subtle and more blatant references to the dukes of hazzard in the kr ep "give me liberty or give me death" i will say there are SJC episodes that are blatant copies of Glen Larson's.... not so much in H&M but go watch the knight rider episode "good day at white rock" from season 1 and then go watch the a team episode "black day at bad rock" unsure of the season for that one, but even the names are pretty much the same... both eps are about the good guys (a team or kitt and michael) helping a local sheriff rid his town of a terrorizing biker gang.... the KR ep definately came first, so that would mean SJC was the one doing the copying.... and FWIW i never meant to say that H&M was copying DoH or KR, just that it appears to be making a reference to KR in this ep... whether that was what they were going for or not i dont know... i do know in KR they were making a Blatant joke aimed at the dukes of hazzard... you just can't believe that they randomly chose an orange 69 dodge charager and put American Racing rims on it, and put 2 rednecks in it and had it run on moonshine... they couldnt have just made that one up..... |
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Post by Coyote Queen on Nov 4, 2007 20:25:55 GMT -5
Please don't take my post the wrong way. It wasn't directed at you or anyone else. I was just ranting. Everyone is free to post his or her opions and observations here.
It's just that when those two shows are mentioned in the same sentence as Hardcastle and McCormick, my blood really boils. It made me think of something I read on another forum where someone stated that H&M was a ripoff of Knight Rider.
Speaking of biker gangs taking over small towns, you can add GAH's " Hog Wild" (1981) to the list.
Glen Larson... He was at MCA and so was Cannell during his Adam-12 days. I wouldn't be surprised if they knew each other. Heck, they might have worked together at one time.Now, on a lighter note, let me share some striking similarities between 2 episodes of 2 different Cannell shows (Some of you may have seen them before as I had them posted on another thread in this forum and on a previous YouTube account: The Greatest American Hero "200 Mile Per Hour Fastball" (1981) s24.photobucket.com/albums/c50/njsurf68/Hardcastle/?action=view¤t=GREATEST_AMERICAN_HERO_S2_D1.flvHardcastle and McCormick "The Game You Learn From Your Father" (1985) s24.photobucket.com/albums/c50/njsurf68/Hardcastle/?action=view¤t=HARDCASTLE_AND_MCCORMICK_2_5.flvDon't get me wrong, I love Cannell...but it leaves you scratchin' your head. 
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Post by theyankeeclipper on Nov 7, 2007 17:24:43 GMT -5
"Duet for 2 wind instruments" .... I haven't watched that episode in a while. Was that the episode where McCormick was drunk and crawling on the kitchen floor while the judge taunted him with a Wendy's hamburger? LOL ;D www.youtube.com/v/82-FJyniP7A&rel=1I wouldn't be a bit surprised if someone told me they saw similar episodes/scripts of Riptide, Hunter, Hardcastle, Stingray, etc. Cannel is notorious for recycling scripts, special effects, and even guest stars. On the other hand, he also had a habit of finding the perfect actors to fill his roles: Brian Keith, Daniel Hugh Kelly, Robert Culp, William Katt, James Garner, Ken Wahl, Micheal Chiklis, Fred Dryer, Stepfanie Kramer, and the list goes on. The following is not to be read by people who get easily offended: This post is not directed at anyone. It's my own ramblings about a topic that has irked me for roughly 25 years: Sorry gang, but I despise Knight Rider (and the Dukes of Hazzard). I read a lame post on some other board that " Hardcastle and McCormick was ABC's response to Knight Rider". What a bunch of crap! The two shows are entirely different. It pisses me off. If anything, Knight Rider was NBC's response to CBS's The Dukes of Hazzard. Hell, you could even say Knight Rider is a ripoff of My Mother The Car! In the case of both the Dukes and Knight Rider the star of the show was the CAR. CBS even replaced the "human stars" because they wanted more $$$ from the sales of "Dukes" merchandise. For those of you too young to remember, it was General Lee toys that were flying off the shelves, not John Schneider T-shirts. The Dukes of Hazzard eventually got canceled due to poor scripts and poor production values. Yes, the actors who replaced the originals sucked, but that was a casting error. Bottom line...when people hear the words " Dukes of Hazzard" the first thing they think of is an orange 1969 Dodge Charger. In Hardcastle and McCormick you had real acting with chemistry and character development. You can see as the series progressed, how Mark and Milt went from an adversarial relationship to that of father/son. The Coyote is not as prominent in episodes as some naysayers and detractors might lead you to believe. I can't say the same about the " Dukes of Hazzard" or " Knight Rider". ***Turn away now if you despise the sight of blood*** I'm going to go even further by saying that Brian Keith and Daniel Hugh Kelly are/were real actors who excel(led) at their craft. Hasselhoff and Schneider can't act their way out of a paper bag. And don't even get me started on the "token senior citizens holding down the fort"...Denver Pyle and Ed Mulhare. Yeah, sit back and let the young guys steal the thunder! You don't see the Judge doing that now do ya? Hardcastle and McCormick was an ORIGINAL. It wasn't a "response" to anything, nor was it a "car as the star" show. Quite simply it was yet another wonderful creation from the genius named Cannell. Zora, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. Almost brought a tear to my eye, and almost EVERYTHING you have said, is how I have felt about "Airwolf" being compared to "Knight Rider". Other than the show's have 'black supermachines'... "Airwolf" & "KR" had literally NOTHING in common. "Airwolf" actually featured well-structed & written scripts with great buddy duo acting from Jan-Michael Vincent & Ernest Borgnine (alot like Brian Keith & Daniel Hugh Kelly), and the show took itself seriously, tried it's best to be intelligent at least for an action series, and always was believeable despite beyond beliveable subject matter. "KR" was total cornball. It was total fantasy/sci-fi, no different than "Star Trek". It couldn't have been further from "Airwolf", and ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY "Hardcastle and McCormick". I always looked at "H&McC" as Cannell basicly mixing "The Rockford Files" with "The A-Team", and coming up with a new recipe called "Hardcastle and McCormick". If anything, and even this is a stretch, if anything, "H&McC" was ABC's answer to CBS' "Magnum, p.i." |
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Post by blk95ta on Nov 9, 2007 19:25:18 GMT -5
"Duet for 2 wind instruments" .... I haven't watched that episode in a while. Was that the episode where McCormick was drunk and crawling on the kitchen floor while the judge taunted him with a Wendy's hamburger? LOL ;D www.youtube.com/v/82-FJyniP7A&rel=1I wouldn't be a bit surprised if someone told me they saw similar episodes/scripts of Riptide, Hunter, Hardcastle, Stingray, etc. Cannel is notorious for recycling scripts, special effects, and even guest stars. On the other hand, he also had a habit of finding the perfect actors to fill his roles: Brian Keith, Daniel Hugh Kelly, Robert Culp, William Katt, James Garner, Ken Wahl, Micheal Chiklis, Fred Dryer, Stepfanie Kramer, and the list goes on. The following is not to be read by people who get easily offended: This post is not directed at anyone. It's my own ramblings about a topic that has irked me for roughly 25 years: Sorry gang, but I despise Knight Rider (and the Dukes of Hazzard). I read a lame post on some other board that " Hardcastle and McCormick was ABC's response to Knight Rider". What a bunch of crap! The two shows are entirely different. It pisses me off. If anything, Knight Rider was NBC's response to CBS's The Dukes of Hazzard. Hell, you could even say Knight Rider is a ripoff of My Mother The Car! In the case of both the Dukes and Knight Rider the star of the show was the CAR. CBS even replaced the "human stars" because they wanted more $$$ from the sales of "Dukes" merchandise. For those of you too young to remember, it was General Lee toys that were flying off the shelves, not John Schneider T-shirts. The Dukes of Hazzard eventually got canceled due to poor scripts and poor production values. Yes, the actors who replaced the originals sucked, but that was a casting error. Bottom line...when people hear the words " Dukes of Hazzard" the first thing they think of is an orange 1969 Dodge Charger. In Hardcastle and McCormick you had real acting with chemistry and character development. You can see as the series progressed, how Mark and Milt went from an adversarial relationship to that of father/son. The Coyote is not as prominent in episodes as some naysayers and detractors might lead you to believe. I can't say the same about the " Dukes of Hazzard" or " Knight Rider". ***Turn away now if you despise the sight of blood*** I'm going to go even further by saying that Brian Keith and Daniel Hugh Kelly are/were real actors who excel(led) at their craft. Hasselhoff and Schneider can't act their way out of a paper bag. And don't even get me started on the "token senior citizens holding down the fort"...Denver Pyle and Ed Mulhare. Yeah, sit back and let the young guys steal the thunder! You don't see the Judge doing that now do ya? Hardcastle and McCormick was an ORIGINAL. It wasn't a "response" to anything, nor was it a "car as the star" show. Quite simply it was yet another wonderful creation from the genius named Cannell. Zora, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. Almost brought a tear to my eye, and almost EVERYTHING you have said, is how I have felt about "Airwolf" being compared to "Knight Rider". Other than the show's have 'black supermachines'... "Airwolf" & "KR" had literally NOTHING in common. "Airwolf" actually featured well-structed & written scripts with great buddy duo acting from Jan-Michael Vincent & Ernest Borgnine (alot like Brian Keith & Daniel Hugh Kelly), and the show took itself seriously, tried it's best to be intelligent at least for an action series, and always was believeable despite beyond beliveable subject matter. "KR" was total cornball. It was total fantasy/sci-fi, no different than "Star Trek". It couldn't have been further from "Airwolf", and ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY "Hardcastle and McCormick". I always looked at "H&McC" as Cannell basicly mixing "The Rockford Files" with "The A-Team", and coming up with a new recipe called "Hardcastle and McCormick". If anything, and even this is a stretch, if anything, "H&McC" was ABC's answer to CBS' "Magnum, p.i." that brings up an interesting point, i wonder what shows were developed to compete with other shows... for example Knight rider was aimed at CBS's "The Dukes of Hazzard" and you say H&M was aimed at Magnum PI I have a feeling there was a show aimed at H&M as well... does anyone reemember Scarecrow & Mrs. King? it was a CBS show that started in october 1983...only a month after Hardcastle and McCormick.... but there is definately a similarity... 2 very different people thrown into eachother's lives in weird circumstances (granted the judge knew mccormick from a few years earlier whereas i think S&MrsK met by a train or something cause he needed her to deliver a package (thats what i remember from the opening credits anyway) but there were definately similarities.... anyone else agree with me? |
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Post by jadzia2000 on Nov 9, 2007 19:36:07 GMT -5
A lot of shows like to copy each other's concepts or episode ideas.
If I recall in the episode "d-day" Mark work sunglasses and a white oversized t-shirt and his blazer with the sleeves rolled up ala Don Johnson in Miami Vice.
But after watching "duet...." I did notice the KR references too. Especially the leather jacket on Mark.
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Post by Coyote Queen on Nov 9, 2007 23:16:24 GMT -5
OK, here's my two cents..... Dukes of Hazzard..... inspired by the Smokey and the Bandit films. Knight Rider.... created to compete with Dukes of Hazzard. (I still say it's a ripoff of My Mother the Car!) Magnum P.I.... created MAINLY to make use of the extensive facilities CBS built for filming Hawaii Five-0. (They invested a TON of $$$.) Displays traces of Rockford along with Black Sheep Squadron. Matt Houston...blatant ripoff of Magnum with a touch of Heart To Heart (Wealthy crime-fighters). Airwolf... inspired by Blue Thunder (the film, not the TV series). Extremely well written and acted. I hate when these alleged "macho-men" shows don't get the credit the deserve! P.S. Ernest Borgnine is 90-something and still looks like he could kick your ass!  A-Team...I think I'm gonna get sick.  Lastly, Hardcastle and McCormick. I always thought Mark and Milt were alot like Ralph and Bill in The Greatest American Hero. There's just one little twist...Mark wasn't as squeaky clean as Ralph, and Milt more was laid back than Bill. Mark had a red car instead of the red "jammies". Of course the Coyote didn't figure in as prominently as the red suit, and there was more drama in H&M than in GAH. |
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Post by theyankeeclipper on Nov 10, 2007 13:26:31 GMT -5
Stephen Cannell stated that Brandon Tartikoff (then president of NBC) actually pitched the idea of "The A-Team" to him. He was looking for an action show that would be a cross between "Mad Max" & "The Dirty Dozen". Cannell did some tinkering with the idea, and TAT was born.
Zora, you are definitely a first for me. I have never known ANYONE in my life, that ever disliked "The A-Team", especially as strongly as you do. But i've met plenty of people who didn't like "Hardcastle & McCormick" or "Hunter".
I love them all.
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Post by Coyote Queen on Nov 10, 2007 17:14:43 GMT -5
What so hard to believe? Not everyone on this planet is an A-Team fan. People have different tastes, and I despise the A-team. Conversely, I'm sure there are some shows that I like that would bore you to tears, that's life.  OK, I'll explain: 1.) Along time ago, I was active on the GAH board. There was a certain member there (who still posts there multiple times a day I might add), who felt the need to inject the A-Team into EVERY thread on every board. In essence, he hijacked the board. The damage was done, and now if you visit that board you can see for yourself. The conversations there are just ridiculous. It's like a convention for morons now. I don't want that to happen here. 2.) I kinda take offense that that some people feel that A-Team is the "crown jewel" in the collected works of Stephen J. Cannell. To me it was a kiddie show, chock full of marketing gimmicks. I think Rockford and Hunter were way better...period. That's my opinion. 3.) This is the Hardcastle and McCormick fan forum. It will not become an A-Team shrine. If it comes up in conversation, fine. Friendly comparisons of shows is to be expected in a forum such as this. I'll give you an example: In the episode "Duet..." some may see Knight Rider comparisons. I don't, especially since the Trans Am was a convertible, and Mark was wearing a brown leather jacket. (Again, just my opinion). So there you have it. To this day, the words "A-Team" makes me ill. Sorry, It's just the way I feel. |
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Post by beatlejam on Nov 11, 2007 2:04:36 GMT -5
Actually, when it comes to "rip-offs" of shows, about a year after "Hardcastle & McCormick" aired on ABC, CBS answered with THEIR version: "Crazy Like a Fox". That show starred Jack Warden as the old guy and John Rubinstein as the young, curly-haired sidekick. The only difference was that their relationship was father-son (and, of course, that "H & McC" was WAY better!) |
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Post by owlley on Nov 11, 2007 3:01:44 GMT -5
yea but, wasn't CLF reversed in character roles? the curly headed young guy was the lead and the older guy was the one who got into trouble because he was the con artist?
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Post by beatlejam on Nov 11, 2007 5:07:31 GMT -5
yea but, wasn't CLF reversed in character roles? the curly headed young guy was the lead and the older guy was the one who got into trouble because he was the con artist? Yeah, they changed it a little bit, of course. But basically, it was the Hardcastle and McCormick "formula" just tweaked somewhat. It's funny....I can remember when CBS first started running promos for "Crazy Like a Fox"....."H & McC" was one of my favorite shows at the time, of course....And when I saw the promos, I thought, "Whoa! They're doing Hardcastle and McCormick!" But, uh, no offense to the cast, crew, and fans of "Crazy Like a Fox, " but I remember it didn't take me long to realize that it was no "H & McC"! ;D |
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Post by theyankeeclipper on Nov 11, 2007 14:47:22 GMT -5
What so hard to believe? Not everyone on this planet is an A-Team fan. People have different tastes, and I despise the A-team. Conversely, I'm sure there are some shows that I like that would bore you to tears, that's life. OK, I'll explain: 1.) Along time ago, I was active on the GAH board. There was a certain member there (who still posts there multiple times a day I might add), who felt the need to inject the A-Team into EVERY thread on every board. In essence, he hijacked the board. The damage was done, and now if you visit that board you can see for yourself. The conversations there are just ridiculous. It's like a convention for morons now. I don't want that to happen here. 2.) I kinda take offense that that some people feel that A-Team is the "crown jewel" in the collected works of Stephen J. Cannell. To me it was a kiddie show, chock full of marketing gimmicks. I think Rockford and Hunter were way better...period. That's my opinion. 3.) This is the Hardcastle and McCormick fan forum. It will not become an A-Team shrine. If it comes up in conversation, fine. Friendly comparisons of shows is to be expected in a forum such as this. I'll give you an example: In the episode "Duet..." some may see Knight Rider comparisons. I don't, especially since the Trans Am was a convertible, and Mark was wearing a brown leather jacket. (Again, just my opinion). So there you have it. To this day, the words "A-Team" makes me ill. Sorry, It's just the way I feel. You feel the way you feel, I have no problem with that. I was curious, because of what I stated before. I have never ever met anyone who hated "The A-Team". But personally, I think you are taking the show a bit too seriously. The show is pure PG-rated comedy. Even in the show's final season when they made it more serious to try and re-invent it, it was still pretty much a comedy. Unlike "Rockford" & "H&McC" which were drama's with comedic overtones, and "Hunter" which was pure drama. No doubt in my mind, that on a technical level, almost all of Cannell's 80's shows were much better written. Heck, "Wiseguy" was in a league of it's own writing-wise, serving as a precursor to shows like "The Sopranos" & "The Shield". "21 Jump Street" was also envelope-pushing at times, not to mention the extreme dark violence of "Hunter". But "The A-Team" was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. It was meant to not be taken seriously, to be a comic-book comedy, and to just be fun family-friendly action, and to that degree, I think it quite possibly works the best of any show in that genre to date. As for the topic at hand, I watched "Duet" the other day, and I really didn't see any KR-ism's in the episode. I think it's just someone with KR on the mind. If I wanted, I could technically tie the brown leather jacket & aviator sunglasses of Mark's, as a tie-in to Stringfellow Hawke on "Airwolf". I don't think it was really a homage or anything like that. |
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