H&M - U.S Shows History Query!!

[Riverman70]

Hi all.

It's a cold rainy Good Friday morning here in the U.K and in between household jobs and trying to figure out how my new digital camera works my thoughts drifted to one of my favourite shows!!

My queries are how was the show precieved when first released in the U.S. Did the show have a target audience? Was it seen as an action show aimed say at pre teens or a more adult audience - I always felt it was more the latter than the former.

I say this as I'm baffled as to how H&M can only run for three series/seasons and yet more inferior shows (IMHO) such as Knight Rider & Dukes of Hazzard can rack up 90+ episodes each.

Info gleaned from this site (and others) indicates that the show was not the massive hit it deserved to be (can't think why).

And most importantly, I'd love to know what Brian Keith & Daniel Hugh Kelly thought of their show. I'd like to think they were proud of it - were they?!!

Any assistance would be most appreciated.

Easter greetings to all.

Colin x

[owlcroft]

Well, Colin, I know they both loved doing the show and Brian Keith especially was disappointed and even angry when it was cancelled. One reason it was dropped so quickly (relatively) was the expense of having a second crew just for those famous car chases. Also, at some point in the third season, maybe right at the beginning, it ran after "Monday Night Football". Since no one knew exactly when a game would be over, no one knew when to tune in to see HC&McC except the football fans watching the game. BK was also Not Pleased about that! He said more than once -- just pick a time slot and leave us there!

Target audience -- good question. I think it was up against "Murder She Wrote" in its first season and that was a show that ran for years and years. It was immensely popular with seniors, so I guess the theory was all the younger people would watch "our" show. The placement of it right after football may have been an attempt to get the "guy crowd" from 17-55 years. Brilliant.

What's really stupid (and I know I've said it before, but it still irritates the liver and lights out of me) is that the show placed in the Nielsen Top Ten the week after it was cancelled. This shows me ABC had just plain made up its so-called mind that the expense was too much and dropped it for that reason.

Hopes this helps, Colin. And have a Happy Easter yourself!

[Liz]

Agreed, ABC was going out of their way to kill the series. I think cost was the biggest factor, but it may also have been the direction that the series was moving to. At the beheast of both Danny and Brian, the series' focus was becoming more and more the relationship between the two men.

Face it, just as many of us have shown in our "after the series" stories, the Lone Ranger and Tonto would be cutting seriously back while Mark was in law school. Therefore car chases would be sharply reduced (hence, the extra cost) and more characterization would be utilized. Mystery and adventure could still be had, but in different ways.

Cannell is a master at this and would have adjusted nicely, probably some of the best scripts would have been written for that unborn fourth series. Sad that it never happened. I always wanted to read those scripts. There had to be some out there, the soliciting and writing of scripts start long before the fourth season filming would have started.

This is, of course, just my opinion, but it is backed up by some things that I heard from people who were in the know back then.

[Riverman70]

Many thanks for the information Owlcroft & Liz. As much as I do enjoy the car chases etc I would equally have enjoyed a more 'toned down' show that concentrated on the relationship of the two leads as there was so much character based material to draw from.

If it had, the show may have continued along a more 'Rockford Files' type path, lasting several more seasons.

The show seemed to have far more potential then it was given credit for. Still, at least we got three series/seasons. Roll on the Season Two DVD set!!

Thanks again.

Colin x

[lmlewis]

liz said:

Face it, just as many of us have shown in our "after the series" stories, the Lone Ranger and Tonto would be cutting seriously back while Mark was in law school. Therefore car chases would be sharply reduced (hence, the extra cost) and more characterization would be utilized. Mystery and adventure could still be had, but in different ways.

Cannell is a master at this and would have adjusted nicely, probably some of the best scripts would have been written for that unborn fourth series. Sad that it never happened.

Liz, do you think they would have sent McC off to law school when they did if there'd been a season four paid up for? I've always thought that was a great ending, but had the feel of something cobbled together to make the best of a bad situation. I think it was a bit of genius on Canell's part, though it messed like heck with the timeline.

I've always thought if they'd had a season four, they would have continued on with 'indefinite custody' and worked up to the season three ending a lot more slowly.

[owlcroft]

Yep, got to agree. I always said "If that's the end, then that's the best ending they could do at this point". But I really think it was making lemonade. Can't you just see another two or three seasons working toward the same point? Ah, if only . . .

[Coyote Queen]

I always thought that if they wanted to extend Milt's "custody" of Mark, they easily could have conjured up an excuse. For example, violating parole in order to help an old friend or nab a wanted felon.

[lmlewis]

See, that's the beauty of the 'judicial stay' concept, separate from the parole. The trial for the 'Coyote Incident' is just on hold. Yeah, it would've been a slam dunk while he was still on parole, but it was still out there, un-adjudicated, even afterward. And once the ball's in play, and an arrest has been made, there's no statute of limitations to apply. You might argue that Cody's guilt would've thrown the facts of the case up for grabs but, really, you've still got a whole bunch of charges, apart from the 'theft' of the car, that would have still stood.

I think we got a fic here.

[Liz]

Yes, I think they would've moved that way. We began the series with Milt putting Mark down education-wise, Mark not feeling comfortable there, and determined that, although the undercover job was completed, he's taking his finals. This makes me think he enjoyed the experience. Then as the series moves on, Mark is taking more and more classes, fitting them in where he can. I do think the cancellation might have speeded the situation up, but it was bound to change. Here's Mark, over 30, and playing yardboy as well as Tonto, earning $200 before taxes. It just doesn't work for very long without becoming creepy.

There was so much scope here with that change from child to adult. And that's exactly what it was, Mark growing and maturing, learning that he was worthy of a successful life, that he had the support and, yes, love of someone standing beside him.

What I found forced and strange was Milt buying him a garage. Although the Judge might not have known that Mark was aiming to be a lawyer, he had to know about the college classes. That's something he would've been unable to completely hide. He even mentions study partners when he's caught with a girl at the gatehouse, doesn't he? I seem to remember that happening.

I would've been more inclined to believe that Milt would buy the kid a piece of a racing team. I know that he gets nervous when Mark is out there on the track, but to be a part-owner of a racing team...that might be easier for both men to handle.

Just my opinion.

[lmlewis]

Yup, the creep factor would definitely be edging in there once the parole was up.

There's a definite different feel to the last part of the last season (except for 'Eye of the Beholder', which I staunchly hold is parody). Looked to me like they were trying to deal with it. In the next to last episode, Mark's off to Vegas with no particular explanation. Clearly the guy's not on parole anymore, though neither one of them has apparently addressed the issue before 'Chip'. Now how long could that have gone on for between two rational (using the term loosely) adults.

I've always thought the garage was an interesting representation of Hardcastle's cluelessness re McC--absolutely well-intended, but way off the mark (NPI ;-). And as bad an idea as the garage was, the scene between Mark and Leroy (did I get that name right?) was priceless. Possibly my favorite bit of dialog from the whole series and a glimpse at a very tightly-controlled Dark Mark. And then the way Hardcastle backs off the idea, once he finds out that Mark has other plans, well, it was very nicely done.

[owlcroft]

Well, this may sound stupid, but I always thought the judge was being gracious and generous in finally admitting McCormick had a certain talent that could actually be used legally. Mark always claimed he had been repossessing cars and it wasn't his fault if the paperwork didn't get sorted out in time, so Hardcastle accepted that he had a particular field of expertise and was willing to support that. Very nice of him, I thought. Of course, they were going to upgrade to repair and maintenance of Jaguars and Mercedes-Benzes. I can just see _that_ happening, too.

[jadzia2000]

I remember listening to I believe it was Lawrence Herzog about 10 yrs ago he was on the Larry King radio show, and was really disappointed how H & C had a 25 share and still got cancelled. He believed that the ratings some of the newer shows received couldn't hold a candle to H&C's ratings.

[theyankeeclipper]

Well alot of shows were getting the ax after the 1985-86 TV season. There was a new wave in how TV series were to be done, and the budgets were escalating out of control and most TV exec's wanted massive trims, or either the series would be canceled, regardless of ratings or cult-popularity.

"H&McC" got the ax due to budget, even though the series was still highly-rated.

"Airwolf" got the ax on CBS after only three seasons, even though it still consistantly won them Saturday nights. The show was then revived the next season on USA with a massively trimmed budget. The show now used video to film the series instead of a film print (much similar to what "MacGyver" did). They had an entirely new cast, and the show was now filmed in Canada instead of LA.

"The A-Team" suffered massive cutbacks, and a near cancelation. After their 4th Season, despite still being in the Top-30, Cannell basically had to promise NBC a complete re-tooling to save the show from cancellation. Thus, the reason the show's abbreviated 5th Season (it ended up getting canceled after another 13 episodes anyways), suddenly on-location work was never done again, the explosions & in-your-face action was gone in favor of more espionage, and lots and lots of stock footage was used. Hell, the next-to-last episode (it actually aired last out of order), "Without Reservations" recycled an entire scene for it's opening word-for-word/scene-for-scene from the Season 1 episode, "Holiday In The Hills".

"Dallas" changed. The film prints were gone for video. They used a much cheaper editing program, and less on-location stuff was done in Texas in favor of studio stuff.

"Hunter" drastically changed. The action stuff was almost completely gone, in-favor of crime drama. The film print went to video. Cheaper editing, and more studio stuff was done, instead of on-location LA. Now later on in the series, they got their budget back, and more action, film print, and on-location LA stuff returned. But for the 1986-87 & 1987-88 TV seasons, the show was drastically different from the rest of it's run.

"Knight Rider" got canceled by NBC after four seasons, despite it was still one of their higher-rated shows.

So what i'm saying, is after the 1985-86 season there was a TV bloodbath of cancelations to try and reduce costs. If you stayed, the cuts were so enormous the show was completely different, or you simply were canceled even though your ratings were still high.

The question now is, would you have wanted "H&McC" to return for a 4th Season (1986-87) with massive changes to the show's formula & format, or would you rather have the "H&McC" you love, but still ending after only three seasons?